Mark's Sketchblog

pan pastels

2011-11-26T00:14:00.000-08:00

I had a chance to do a little life drawing (painting?) this past week. These are PanPastels on a smooth card-stock from a stationary store. They are applied with rubbery, foam applicators. It's really fun to use and I highly recommend a small monochromatic set of some sort. I think I have a white, a black and 3 grays, which is plenty - tho I want a warm set now, too so I can play with temperature!

It's a lot like painting with dry media. Quick to setup and cleanup. Of note, these survived being beat around in a sketchbook without noticeable degradation.

New Seattle Gallery: Ltd

2011-10-21T10:58:00.000-07:00

There's a new pop-culture art gallery opening in Seattle. I have an oil piece in the show. Opening's tonight 7-10.

down time at work

2011-08-17T22:39:00.000-07:00

busy

2011-06-08T23:14:00.000-07:00

Which is why the previous posts have all been "mobile" related. I really did have plans to start posting more regularly.

More quick stuff

2011-05-25T00:40:00.001-07:00

Sketchclub's smooth tool is amazing for drawing. I wish there was a real world equivalent that would be that controllably random. I can't paint with this app though.

Painted over in artstudio.

- Posted using BlogPress from my iPad

Self contained

2011-05-17T11:23:00.001-07:00

Test posting from my iPad.

He's not a Vegetarian

2011-05-15T20:21:00.000-07:00

Stumbled thru a bunch of apps on it til I finished in the most flexible and pleasant brush for my mark making style - ArtStudio. I really do have high hopes for ProCreate's next version as it's UI is just golden. I haven't tried LayersPro, but I think I've covered most of the other popular ones so far.

Oh, I forgot - I love drawing in SketchClub. It's got that crazy procedural "sketch" mode. I found it's painter only good for people who can use scatter brushes to their advantage. It's opacity dynamics aren't doing it for me.

Strange none use Painter's "sample stroke" or whatever it's called, that would sample, and later use your "more typical" stroke. You'd figure maybe it would be able to capture some dynamic info from that to help inform subsequent strokes.

Or perhaps better yet - like Toonboom's paradigm (dunno if they still do this) which never read pressure, but rather would procedurally redraw your last stroke, emulating a fading in and out over the length of the stroke. The dynamics of this was somehow editable to your liking. It was fast enough not to get in the way. I wonder if that would be irritating with a painting program.

I dun-gone went an did it

2011-05-08T23:47:00.000-07:00

Got me an ipad. Pombero made me do it.

Very fun. So far, all the iphone apps have a better structured UI than their ipad/phone counterparts. I'll give them all more "dirt time" before reviewing them.

ProCreate over pencil (shot w camera)

ProCreate

Artstudio

AD Sketchbook Mobile

more iPhone paints

2011-05-05T00:34:00.000-07:00

I got a little rubber-tipped Targus stylus. It's 1000x better than my horrible 2 pogo foam tip. Those seemed to skip every 4th stroke or so.

I'm convinced. I really do enjoy painting on my phone. I can't see how the iPad wouldn't be that much more fun. I seem to loose a bit of perspective with my hand covering a good part of the screen (see different sized limbs below) but all in all I'm quite happy with the experience.

These 3 were all done with ArtStudio. That app is like a mini Photoshop.

I'm also excited to try ProCreate (Thank's for that, Tor). Looks like really nice piece of software that's really thinking about the user experience and is continuing to develop.

Edit: to be clear - the above is a comp of a 2 primed sheets of paper, a pencil sketch and a paint over those. The cool thing is I took them all with the phone's camera, and imported them directly into Art Studio.

iphone sketches

2011-04-27T22:40:00.000-07:00

AD Sketchbook Mobile ...

Art Studio ...

For some time now, I've wrung my hands over whether or not to get an ipad for sketching. Like most of us, the central issue of pressure has been the showstopper. Do I wait and hope for apple to release ipad5? Or for apple to allow a 3rd party to do something about it?

I'll say that I even enjoy doodling on my stupid little phone! There is a fun, Zen simplicity of having to paint with no pressure. It keeps things loose for me and I count that as a win.

My picks thus far are Art Studio (love the main brush and smear) and Autodesk Sketchbook ( best. lines. ever. ). For me, these 2 have the best balance of brush feel (and falloff options) and UI. UI overall on sketch apps for iphone is terrible. I can only hope I can one day find an app where the tools and colors I want quick access too are onscreen all the time. I will sacrifice a wee bit of real estate! It's crazy-irritating to have to tap 4+ times to change a color, or a brush size. These devices are supposed to encourage MORE intuitive workflows than desktops, not less.

I plan to spend some time with Inspire next. I've tried Brushes and Colors but don't play well with them.

Anyone else doing this!? I find surprisingly little out there.

Vacation pics

2011-04-03T22:24:00.000-07:00

Took a little watercolor pad, some ink and a few tubes of acrylics with me on vacation last week. Didn't have time for much but it was nice to play. Followed one up w a quickie zbrush exploration.

Art blocks

2010-10-31T21:07:00.000-07:00

My piece for this auction: http://artblocksghana.blogspot.com/ Check out all the art on there!!

Acrylic on panel.

Animated gif of process.Click to view animation.

Spraypaint

2010-10-31T20:41:00.000-07:00

Learning to use spraypaint on Friday nights.

Belton Molotow & MTN 94.

My apologies going missing like that.

quick

2010-06-08T21:23:00.000-07:00

I'm positive it's a wig. Charcoal & pastel pencils. Need to find some gray paper.

2010-06-08T21:21:00.001-07:00

Master copy

2010-06-07T23:48:00.000-07:00

Study of a favorite Rockwell piece. I learn something new and remember something I forgot every time I do a quick study like this.

Drawing with my son tonight and wanted to try some charcoal & white pastel pencil. It's always been frustrating to me that fixative wrecks everything it touches. I bought a new one that worked, but it cost me $20 for the can! Latour Sennelier. If it makes charcoal/ chalk/ pastel a viable medium to keep in a sketchbook, it would be worth it.

Another zombie, this time in CS5

2010-05-10T21:27:00.000-07:00

I was trying to find mixer brush setting combos that would work for me.

I didn't even know about the HUD palette back when I did this. Now it's hard to work without it.

At the same time, I'm really irritated that it feels designed by an engineer without regard for or input from the customer.

It's a horribly designed 2 part keyboard chord that terribly thought through - as is the earlier CS4 right mouse button brush size fail.

I've resorted to using autoHotkey, a free hotkey management app, to avoid future RSI issues with these tools. I can post my script if anyone wants it.

CS5 does have some amazing features and I am already crazy about it.

Photoshop CS5

2010-05-05T00:21:00.000-07:00

I loves the new brushes and I'm getting used to the new HUD palette. Slooowwly.

Still trying to find brush combos that work for me.

This blog has moved

2010-04-12T22:01:00.001-07:00

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Blog moving : http://www.markbehm.com/blogger/

2010-04-12T22:00:00.000-07:00

http://www.markbehm.com/blogger/

Had to migrate as blogger is shutting down ftp serving. Update your RSS feeds!

PS Night sketchy. My money isn't on the under-dressed girl.

Calgary Comic Expo 2010?

2010-03-21T21:31:00.000-07:00

April 24th & 25th. Anybody going?
I needed new cards.
I'll be at the BrandStudio booth.

Been a long, long time

2010-02-17T23:24:00.000-08:00

Help the Hodges Benefit Auction

2010-01-13T00:48:00.001-08:00

For an old friend. It's been my honor to know and learn from this man.

If there are any industry artists out there that haven't heard or been able to contribute, the deadline for submissions is coming up very soon: http://www.helpthehodges.com/

It's the first acrylic on canvas I've done since ...possibly high school? I'm struck by how much easier the predictable texture of the surface makes things. I don't have to worry about any of my previous acrylic issues. I've been painting on smooth surfaces for too long. It begs more playtime.

This is such a bad idea

2010-01-03T22:14:00.000-08:00

How does he always get talked into these kinds of things?

showdown

2010-01-02T23:39:00.000-08:00

Just playing with some custom PS brushes.

Gogogo!

2009-12-28T22:31:00.000-08:00

Time to paint

2009-12-04T17:31:00.000-08:00

been too long

2009-11-19T22:16:00.000-08:00

roughly how tired I am.

Live demo Nov 5th in Bellevue WA

2009-10-30T20:21:00.000-07:00

unused illo for a WOTC D&D project from last year.

If you are in the Seattle area, I'm going to be doing a demo next Thursday in Bellevue.
Even better - BROM is going to be there giving a talk. It's an opening for a new school called 3d Training Academy. I'll be teaching a couple of character design/digital painting evening classes there soon. See their site for the demo location http://www.3dta.com

out for a stroll

2009-10-17T22:54:00.000-07:00

Been so busy lately. Lots of partially finished stuff that's just not ready to post.

huntsman

2009-09-23T22:56:00.000-07:00

Photoshop.

acrylic + photoshop

2009-09-02T08:43:00.000-07:00

zbrush "PaintStop" doodle

2009-08-03T15:28:00.000-07:00

Downloaded it today. Just playing w some of the tools. It's not one of those things I was hoping or expecting from zbrush, but I found it kinda fun.

Shoe Salesman

2009-07-28T22:09:00.000-07:00

Photo"painfully slow"shop CS4.

No idea where I was going with this. It's really hot here.
Can anyone tell me why this plays so fast?! It's 13 minutes @ 30fps on my machine and plays just fine til I upload it.

Digital Painting 01 ~ Shoe Salesman from Mark Behm on Vimeo.

the pass

2009-07-08T22:17:00.001-07:00

Friday mug

2009-07-03T10:45:00.001-07:00

It had been a while since I last used painter. I needed some down time at work and had installed painter 11 some time ago. Now I remember why it was so fun.

landscrape

2009-07-01T21:58:00.000-07:00

I feel dirty painting waterfalls. Like a lens flare.

tradigital

2009-06-23T22:08:00.000-07:00

Started as a an oil over pencil. Painted over it and added more color in PS. I haven't done that in a long time.

'nother

2009-06-08T11:06:00.000-07:00

Another, same light conditions. Working through some of the things I learned from the last experiment.

To top it all off

2009-06-01T22:26:00.000-07:00

Bernard's breath was bad too.

wipeout

2009-05-31T20:48:00.000-07:00

Another Nightwork interior. Alkyd over fixed prismacolor. For those not familiar with the idea this was done entirely transparently. A loose value drawing, then a quick wash of black and burnt sienna, then lights wiped, scrubbed and/or picked out with a dry cloth, dry q-tip, or brush with turps. I used to love the luminous quality, textured feel and raw speed of this over-done technique.
See Bernie Fuchs, C.M.Dudash and David Grove

Bad white point, first 2 steps.

Face Study

2009-05-11T14:53:00.000-07:00

Waiting for a meeting this morning.
Every once in a while I'll do a few sketches just to find out what I'm missing. What muscle insert have I been faking? What would the light really do? For this one I just tried to keep the light position fixed relative to their face directions. The temptation to reference photos was pretty bad. Then I goback and check against photos/mirror with similar light. These are pretty off, but (and always) it's worth every minute I spent on it - just to take away a couple things I learned.

Nostalgic

2009-05-08T21:34:00.001-07:00

I sometimes miss the little patch of woods next to where I lived in Northern California - on a huge bluff above the ocean. It didn't really look like this but it had a similar personality to it.
The place could be breathtakingly beautiful and scary at the same time. My favorite times were the crazy red light it often had about it at sunset and the absolute darkness and roar of the ocean at night.

TrollGeeks

2009-04-23T22:00:00.000-07:00

For Drawergeeks this week. PS.

Exercise

2009-04-16T22:22:00.000-07:00

Painter. More quickie palette knife randomness.
I'm aggravated by the lack of decent angle control.
Tilt is useless to me. Bearing is confusing. Direction doesn't work (spins).
Rotation with my 6d is more or less random (only seems so w pknife) and only seems to want to read the pen's angle when it chooses to.

palette knives

2009-04-14T23:07:00.000-07:00

Painter. Loaded palette knife and a soft airbrush.
Love that knife for blocking.

sketch

2009-04-14T07:46:00.000-07:00

A late night 42 minutes. PainterX. Here's the image.

Emerald City Con 2009

2009-04-01T22:06:00.000-07:00

OK, who here has stalked a campfire?....Hello? This started from the same abstract goo the last one did. I feel it might have a dozen other compositions locked in there somewhere.

I won't be at the Emerald City Con in Seattle this weekend (April 4 & 5) but my co-worker Wade Schin (site)(book) and BrandStudio Press will both be there and my Nightworks book will be available at one of those booths. Stop by both and say hi!

old wreck

2009-03-30T21:57:00.000-07:00

Nap

2009-03-24T23:19:00.001-07:00

Photoshop over pencil sketch.

Another shot: Golden Opens

2009-03-22T22:40:00.000-07:00

On the advice of Erik I decided to give Golden Opens another go but without water. I used only a gloss medium I had, only enough water to barely wet the brush to start.
I have to say that it was better - no ugly 2 stage drying that turned me off last time- but still very stiff. I think I need to find a more fluid (and thinner) medium for them. Maybe that would do the trick.

Yarg. Pan Pastel

2009-03-16T23:59:00.000-07:00

2 days before the con I was in the art store and found these panPastel things. They are little trays of pastel that have so little binder in them that they don't hold together in a stick. You apply them with what look like makeup sponges on sticks. This is my first shot, done during Wondercon. Extremely fun stuff. I'm not a pastel guy, but I can see why painters are drawn to the medium. This stuff in particular is as much paint as any wet medium I've tried.
There's a quick guache wash for a base and prismacolor under, over, etc. It's all done on this great Wallis pastel paper which is really expensive sandpaper.

reset

2009-02-24T17:33:00.000-08:00

When I'm stuck on something it often helps me to take an hour or so out and step away from things. Do something different. Brain reset.

Wondercon!

2009-02-23T15:39:00.000-08:00

I will be at Wondercon this year! It's this coming weekend in SF. Feb 27-March 1.
The gracious and talented Pascal Campion is sharing his booth with me. I'll be pawning Nightworks and collecting commissions. See you there?

gnarled viking

2009-02-12T07:48:00.000-08:00

This is pretty much how I used to paint everything albeit spending more time.
Value drawing.
Transparent underpainting. Acrylic and then Alkyd here.
Opaque, thicker paint for painting light. Alkyd in this case.
I think I'll do more like this. I'll tape at least one of them.
This one's yours, Jack.

I still like oil better

2009-02-05T22:03:00.000-08:00

I don't know why that disappoints me.
This was alkyds but I consider it oil.

Golden Open Acrylics. First shot.

2009-01-25T21:59:00.000-08:00

The jury is still out on these in this house. I do like that they stay wet for so long and that I can dry them w a hairdryer when I'm ready. I do like that when they are dry, they are tough, like regular acrylics without sealing them.

But there is a lot I really didn't like. Keep in mind this is after one session of play.

They stay wet for a while, but "set" to a strange consistency right away - after the water evaporates. Once they are in this stage they have a really odd "pull" to them that I didn't like at all. Not tacky, exactly, but gooey. Glycerin-like.

They are exceptionally translucent and you need to use a LOT of paint to get any real covering power. More than other acrylics I've tried. I only used Titanium white and burnt umber on this. Other colors to come next.

Right now, I'm leaning toward the Atelier Interactives, I can let them dry right away, or keep them open with water (or slow drying medium) or open them later with water. They aren't the most potent pigments in the world, but much stronger than the Golden Opens of the same color. I suspect it has to do with the whatever vehicle they are using to keep them open.

More play is needed.

oil sketch videos up

2009-01-22T23:02:00.000-08:00

Had to split it up into 3, 10 minute sections. It was very late when I did the overdub so you'll have to forgive me. I should have written an outline to talk to.
Edit: The blog I mention on color is http://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/

Alkyd roughneck

2009-01-20T21:08:00.001-08:00

I will have a video of it up in the next few days. Seems it's 30 minutes total. I will keep it real-time and do a shoddy voice-over. Hopefully it will address some FAQ. So if you've asked a question (or do in the next day) I'll try to get to it.

Narrow escape

2009-01-15T22:27:00.000-08:00

Painter.
Something is wrong with my painter at work. Every 10th stroke or so, I get a horizontal streak going off to the left and fading out. Like an old Bob Peak painting! It worked fine a few months back. This happen to anybody else? I even got Corel's service pack. No good.

nails

2009-01-14T22:47:00.000-08:00

Quick, aimless thumbnails inspired by Marco Bucci's recent posts. Brain reset.

Sorry it's been so long! I paint all day now, so I must be getting it out of my system! At least a little.

More posts on the way.

Atelier interactive demo

2008-12-26T20:47:00.000-08:00

Tried to get the palette in there. The only thing of note is that I'm occasionally spraying the thing with water. This somehow re-hydrates the already dry (but not cured) acrylic. Making it workable again.
I also only used a big flat brush. Even with fast work, there's little reason to go smaller. It makes you think in planes and directionality and helps prevent excessive noodling.

oil speedpaint 4

2008-12-09T22:56:00.001-08:00

I added raw sienna this time and it took me way longer to do. 35 minutes. Why raw sienna? Why? Maybe it was because I had little idea where I was going when I started.

Oil Speedpaint 03

2008-12-04T21:47:00.000-08:00

13 minutes for this one down to 7 something. I will eventually post the finals. Enough of this for now. Tried to get the palette visible, as limited as it was. All of these were done with

Ivory Black
Burnt Sienna
Titanium White

Just to get a warm cool mix.
I think the hardest thing about these was the fact that I was doing them flat on a table and I couldn't get around to the left side because the camera & light were in the way! All my brush strokes kinda went from left to right. Unexpectedly frustrating.

And another oil

2008-12-04T21:45:00.000-08:00

19 minutes compressed to 7. Better white balance this time.

Alkyd & Oil

2008-12-04T10:41:00.000-08:00

10 min, down to 7.5 min. Should have a few more like this soon.

Don't even look at his sister

2008-11-30T10:44:00.000-08:00

Wasn't til the end till I saw the Earth Worm Jim'ness. Ah well.
Also I did an interview with SideBar that was just posted. At the very least, go look at the list of previous podcast interviews they've done. Tons of very cool stuff.

interior quickies

2008-11-03T22:05:00.001-08:00

sloppy oil wipe-out over prismacolor

sloppy acrylic

thumbnail

2008-10-31T16:42:00.000-07:00

Sorry for the stretches between posts. I have more to put up soon. These were just PS doodles.

sag

2008-10-16T21:27:00.001-07:00

In his prime, he's make short work of ya. These days he doesn't get out so much. I thickened him up too much in the sculpt and I think he lost his scary edge. Anyone know how to get rid of that awful edge aliasing in zbrush renders?

Update: I wanted to get it back into Maya/Mentalray w textures and see how i would render.

This time in zbrush

2008-10-13T17:14:00.000-07:00

From a sphere as well.

The model without paint

october post

2008-10-10T17:22:00.001-07:00

Playing with the new mudbox demo at work. From a sphere, which I regretted later when there was no more ram to tesselate again and sculpt his teeth.

More girls

2008-10-09T20:42:00.000-07:00

More quick paints. Atelier interactive acrylics.

new stuff

2008-09-30T22:37:00.000-07:00

I'm sorry it's been so long. So here's a bunch of recent one-nighters.
final

Couple sketch prelims.

Finally got some Atelier colors. Now I have to learn to cope with color. I'm always surprised with how paint scans. It seems to "shoot through" some color and then handle others just fine. Seems to see translucency different than my eyes do.

interior

2008-09-04T23:32:00.000-07:00

A quick acrylic (the interactive Atelier stuff) For my uncle, who is an artist as well.

been a while

2008-08-24T21:45:00.000-07:00

Been a while since I spent any time on a digital paint of my own. It felt good to spend a couple nights investing in one piece.

armed

2008-08-19T22:27:00.001-07:00

nonsense.

Still a few to go

2008-08-13T23:41:00.001-07:00

Still spending too much time on these book doodles. Just little skulls now. What kind of terrible person doesn't like skulls?!

More drawings inside books

2008-08-09T20:22:00.000-07:00

I'm spending way too much time on these at the moment. But I'm only doing a few this way. The others will be more typical con doodle/signatures.

Graphite dust, pencil and prismacolor. I think this stuff would be way easier to handle on decent drawing paper.

Book for sale FINALY!

2008-08-09T12:29:00.000-07:00

I put up a paypal button to the right.

Marco Bucci must have seen it this morning before this post! Since he's the first online order, I painted something on the interior for him.

I used these really cool acrylics called Atelier Interactive. My first go at them. They are acrylics, but don't skin over right away. You can use them much like normal acrylics or more like oil. Crazy! I enjoyed this one. I'll buy some more colors and do some more experiments before I give a more complete review.

This is inside another cover. It's another new medium for me. Graphite powder. More play is needed.

Nightwork at SDCC !

2008-07-22T22:15:00.000-07:00

We didn't think it was going to arrive in time, but the book will be at the BrandStudio table at the Con! I will be scribbling in them on Thursday and Friday at some point. Come over and say hi! Same booth as last year H-3 - MAP

Shortly after I get back and get my shipment I'll put up an order link here and on my website.

Tatoo

2008-07-10T22:22:00.000-07:00

Work quickie. PS.

Totoro!

2008-07-10T21:22:00.000-07:00

Finally we can talk about this!
the Totoro Forest Project
I'm honored to be a part of this effort. My friend Dice Tsutsumi helped gather 200 artists to create original work to make this happen. The theme was centered around a protector of nature. It's a benefit to help preserve the Sayama forest, which is on the outskirts of Tokyo and being threatened by urban development. This place was Hayao Miyazaki's inspiration for his Totoro forest and he's been fighting for it for 10 years. There will be an auction and a book of the artwork. All proceeds will go to help save this vanishing forest.

Go check out the gallery on the site. Not all the work is up yet, but there's still more amazing work up there than you can stand!

Oil on masonite 18x24"

Valve

2008-07-07T23:56:00.000-07:00

The jig is up.
The secret is now officially out.
For those of you who I haven't already told...
After nearly a year, finishing the film I'm currently working on, I'm heading to Seattle to start at Valve!

A couple of fun Team Fortress 2 character intros:

I'm really gonna miss my friends here in the Bay but I'm excited to start splashing around in the mud up at the new playground.

busy

2008-06-12T23:26:00.001-07:00

I've been too busy lately. Painter.

hungry

2008-06-03T23:41:00.001-07:00

Quickie last night. PainterX. Used the sponge brush for texture.

Zombie screen cap

2008-05-29T23:36:00.001-07:00

DrawerGeeks:Zombies

2008-05-29T00:10:00.000-07:00

I screen-recorded this one. If there's any interest I'll go and prep and upload it.

Sorry for the tardiness BTW. I've been working on a piece that's been eating all my time. I'll be able to post about it soon.

dirtscapes & RSS feed

2008-05-08T00:40:00.001-07:00

Today's landscapeness.
Also, I updated my RSS feed. Added feed subscription buttons for Google, Yahoo and Bloglines. Hopefully it will be easier for people to subscribe now. Sorry about the prior strangeness.

more oil play

2008-05-06T23:42:00.001-07:00

Small and quick w no real point.

woods

2008-05-06T23:39:00.001-07:00

Just Painter this time. Made a few custom crazy "sponge" brushes for shape variation and texture hinting.

water and oil

2008-04-29T21:37:00.001-07:00

Water-mixable oil paint today (at work). Cropped from the same 9x12 sheet. First time I've tried this stuff in over 1o years. Seems to me they've improved.

Branch pods

2008-04-28T23:49:00.000-07:00

I wasn't expecting to paint tonight. Far from done, but I'm tired.
Here's the blocking if anyone is interesting.

acrylic play

2008-04-22T20:49:00.000-07:00

y

Girl's head was the size of my thumb print and my brush was way too big. That was stupid.
Acrylics scare me. I never know what I'm gonna get when that stroke dries. How dark is that gonna get? Darker than what I put it down on top of? Who knows?

Does anybody know how to manage that?!

Hopefully I'll have an alkyd sketch page coming up soon too.

2008-04-20T22:45:00.000-07:00

Photoshop. Tried a more intentional and limited palette.

one more

2008-04-11T23:32:00.001-07:00

from tonight.

Speedies

2008-04-10T23:49:00.001-07:00

Env paints today. Gotta start doing these in color. Scary.

Don't call it a soul patch!

2008-04-06T21:12:00.001-07:00

Photoshop

drawerGeeks:Samurai

2008-04-03T23:22:00.000-07:00

DrawerGeeks
I wanted to do this one in color but ran out of time w some tricky composition issues.

Book News: For those who have been asking, the book will be ready at the end of May! I'll post any updates as I get them.

life study

2008-03-26T23:20:00.001-07:00

Vine and or charcoal pencil on newsprint. Had fun massing in a bunch of these with no contour. I really liked both of these models and that always seems to come out in the drawing in some intangible way. Random times under 5 minutes. I think the face was closer to 10.